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Two Guys and a Bible-05.22.2012

by Michael J Loomis on May 22, 2012

Two Guys and a Bible with William Bell and Don K. Preston. Tuesday nights at 4PM Pacific/7PM Eastern.

Two Guys and A Bible

Two Guys and A Bible

May 22, 2011

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{ 4 comments… read them below or add one }

manny F May 26, 2012 at 5:28 pm

William hit the proverbial nail on the head.The problem is the ALREADY NOT YET.The already and not yet are running neck even before Ad30(both the already not yet- parallels each other all the way to Ad70) Is there any wonder ppl take one side or the other,but essentially they are both correct.

manny F May 26, 2012 at 5:35 pm

*neck and neck.People like John Noe say there is no already/ not yet.I guess he has different reasons for saying there is no such thing.It might be connected with the Jesus never left concept?

Michael J Loomis May 26, 2012 at 11:03 pm

Manny…I beginning to think that we think too narrowly. Maybe we’re supposed to see both.

I’ve held an already but not yet view for a long time. But I’m seeing it less now. That maybe we are confusing or conflating two different things that have similar concepts.

I’m not sure if Don refer’s to 1 Cor. 10:1-12 as proof that AD30-AD70 was the wilderness wandering.

Those people that came out of old covenant Judaism, had entered into the promised land through baptism into the Body of Christ. Baptism was the crossing the Jordan.

Jesus baptism there at the Jordan was making The Way possible. That’s why people began following him. He was The Way. Into the Promised Land. He was quite literally the second coming of Joshua.

Jesus in and of Himself is the Second Coming…Or the fulfillment of all of those giants of the faith that did well or found favor in the eye’s of God.

For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. He’s the Power behind it all. All these things pointed to Him.

Jesus said, “Behold, I have come—In the volume of the book it is written of Me—To do Your will, O God.” Quoting Psalm 40.

Yes, AD30-AD70 and the destruction of Jerusalem was important. But I think we’re looking in the wrong place for fulfillment…LoL. Sound’s like psychology.

I really just don’t see Revelation 4-22 as speaking about AD70 anymore. Yes the 7 letters to the 7 churches had allusions to what was coming in AD70. But so what. That was soon to come to pass. That doesn’t mean that chapters 4-22 have to be. John was also writing about things he HAD SEEN. But people seem to forget that part…LoL

I just can’t escape the conclusion that if Revelation and John are parallel books…Then how can you have them talking about two wildly different things.

Yes…Josephus tells us that AD70 was an apocalyptic event. The sun, moon, stars and all. And clearly it was. It was fulfilling Jesus’ words in Matthew 24. But so was AD30. Earth shook, thunder and lightning, graves opened up, moon turned blood red(lunar eclipse).

The similarities are all there.

Jesus said in John 12:31-33 “Now is the judgment of this world(Not 40 years later); now the ruler of this world will be cast out(Read Hebrews 2). And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.”

This is the central theme of Revelation. And Jesus said this regarding His death. The Cross. Not the destruction of Jerusalem.

Does this make sense?

Manny F. May 28, 2012 at 1:31 am

I can give a few examples of the already not yet verses

STRONG VERSES FOR THE NOT YET
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
>Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
>Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
Rom 13:11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.
Col 3:4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

The Already verses
ALREADY>Luk10:9 Heal the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’LUKE11:20 But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.
ALREADY>1Co 6:11 And certain of you were these! but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were declared righteous, in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God.
ALREADY>2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
ALREADY>Eph 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
ALREADY>Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

PRESENTLY BEING SAVED
2Co 2:15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,

As you can see how there are just as many already as not yet verses.So there is a good case made for both the AD30,and AD70

*This is not a complete list of already and not yet verses.

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