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Two Guys and A Bible-02.01.2011

by Michael J Loomis on February 2, 2011

Two Guys and a Bible with William Bell and Don K. Preston. Tonights topic…Continuing in Romans 8 and the restoration of rocks, twigs and animals. If the creation in this passage that is being restored is speaking also about inanimate creation then why haven’t we seen rocks, twigs and animals changing too over the last 1900+ years?

February 01, 2011

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{ 2 comments… read them below or add one }

futuredoughnut February 4, 2011 at 8:41 am

Rivers wrote>Paul plainly told the Romans that “the glory” and “the adoption of sons” belonged to “the Israelites according to the flesh” (Romans 9:3-5)
Rom 9:3-5 is not conclusive,keep reading what Paul said throughout the rest of the chapter .
CHRIST IS THE SEED OF THAT PROMISE>Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 neither, because they are Abraham’s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT VERSE>Rom 9:8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is a word of promise, According to this season will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, even by our father Isaac –
IMPORTANT VERSE>Rom 9:11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
Rom 9:12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
THIS IS A STUDY IN ITSELF WHY JACOB WAS LOVED ESAU WAS HATED(in summery: Jacob= spirit, Esau = flesh)
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
IMPORTANT VERSES>Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.
THESE TWO VERSES TELL US THAT A WORKS BASED SALVATION PLAY NO ROLL IN THE PROMISES , BUT ITS GODS ELECT, HIS CHOOSING, HIS MERCY THAT MAKES ONE AN ISRAELITE. LAST BUT NOT LEAST FAITH ON THE PART OF THE INDIVIDUAL .
Rom 9:24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Hosea, I will call that my people, which was not my people; And her beloved, that was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall be, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, There shall they be called sons of the living God.
ALWAYS A REMNANT>Rom 9:27 And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:
SAVING FAITH>Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: (FAITH IS ONE OF THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT)
Rom 9:31 but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. (NO FAITH, WORKS ONLY)
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; (CHRIST CRUCIFIED)
Rom 9:33 even as it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame. (CHRIST)
NO GROUP OF PEOPLE AT THE PAROUSIA (JEWS OR GENTILES) WILL HAVE PREEMINENCE, ONLY THE FAITHFUL Act 2:21 And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

futuredoughnut February 4, 2011 at 12:30 pm

Rivers said>Thanks for the comment, but let me show you what I think you are missing in Romans 9. Of course, no matter how one reads Romans 9, the fact is that Paul stated that “ALL Israel (including the full number of the gentiles” were saved at the parousia. This is an surmountable problem for any preterist who thinks that they are either a Jew or gentile today.
I AGREE 100% THERE IS NOT DOUBT ABOUT THAT !
Rivers said>The reference to “the fathers ACCORDING TO THE FLESH also can only be referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob”.
I THINK MOST COMMENTATORS WOULD AGREE WITH YOU I WOULD DISAGREE ON ONE OF THOSE FATHERS
Rom 9:7 neither, because they are Abraham’s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
HERE IS WHAT WESLEY SAYS>Rom 9:7 Neither because they are lineally the seed of Abraham, will it follow that they are all children of God – This did not hold even in Abraham’s own family; and much less in his remote descendants. But God then said, In Isaac shall thy seed be called – That is, Isaac, not Ishmael, shall be called thy seed; that seed to which the promise is made.

Rivers said>Paul doesn’t say anything about “spiritual” sons.
LIKE I SAID IN THE REPLY THIS IS A PRETTY GOOD RESEARCH PROJECT i.e. WHY JACOB WAS CALLED ISRAEL AND NOT ESAU JACOB= SPIRIT AND ESAU = FLESH(TOO MUCH TO GET INTO HERE)
you can go to the MEANINGFUL LIFE CENTER(RABBI JACOBSON) AND IN THE SEARCH BOX TYPE IN “JACOBS HIP”
TO GET MORE INFO.
Rivers said>I know the implications of what I’m saying are difficult for most people to fathom. However, we have to pay attention to what Paul is actually saying in these texts. Forget all of the nonsense that you’ve heard from people like John Calvin and John Piper … Romans 9 has absolutely nothing to do with “works salvation” or whatever. Paul is simply showing that the seedline of promise extended only through his sons Isaac and Jacob becuase that is the way God called it.
IM NOT A CALVINIST OR A PIPED PIPER BUT I DO SEE HOW PAUL DOES USED THE WORD WORKS IN THE MIDST OF ROMANS 9
I JUST SEE THINGS A LITTLE DIFFERENT IN ROMANS 9
THANKS FOR THE REPLY GB RIVERS

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