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The Antithesis Hour with Phil Naessens & Michael Loomis-10.27.2010

by Michael J Loomis on October 27, 2010

The Antithesis Hour with Phil Naessens and Michael J Loomis. Tonight we continued the conversation we started last week regarding end-times events and the differences in the way we interpret these passages.


Phil’s website is located at – – – –

Thank you for making this preterist podcast series part of your preterist media library.


{ 3 comments… read them below or add one }

May Lyn October 27, 2010 at 9:16 pm

Very good show Phil & Mike…an uninterrupted discussion on very important points of futurism vs preterism. Thank you both. Looking forward to the continuation next week : )

futuredoughnut October 29, 2010 at 3:02 am

ELECT OF GOD= Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad–in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls–
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.'”
Rom 9:26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.'”
@Rom 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Rom 9:28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.”
Rom 9:29 And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”
@Rom 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
Rom 9:33 as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
My point would be that election is both Jews and Gentiles
*Good idea to read the whole of chapt.9 to get the full context of election.

What about salvation if all is fulfilled?

In the New Testament this distinction is
blurred in that believers are already redeemed from the “present evil age” (ai]w<n, Gal. 1:4) and
"have tasted … the powers of the age [alaiv] to come" (Heb. 6:5). The transition has already
begun "in and with the resurrection of Christ, inasmuch as this is the beginning of the general
resurrection (cf. 1 Cor. 15:20, 23)," though as yet, the dawning of this new aeon is concealed
from the eyes of men. In Jewish and early Christian eschatology, the resurrection represents the
transition point from one aeon to the other and the beginning of the new and eternal creation.
In the Gospel of John entrance into the life of God (=entrance into the kingdom of
God) is equated with the kind of life received at regeneration. This is the quality of
life believers receive and possess now and in the age to come "without end or interrup-
tion," and both ai]w<n and ai]w<nioj are used of this kind of life (John 10:28; 3:36; 5:24;
6:47, 54; cf. 1 John 5:11-13). The believers, then, possess a never-ending or eternal life,
and therefore Christ could claim that those who possess this eternal life shall never
die (see, e.g., John 6:51, 58; 8:51-52; 11:26).

MoGrace2u October 29, 2010 at 9:15 am

Well Mike you certainly have your work cut out for you! Phil actually answered his own question, but doesn’t seem to see it.

If the promises given to Israel were not fulfilled so that the old system could be done away, then the new covenant would have to be ministering the law of sin and death to us rather than the law of life and love.

Everything has changed under the new covenant: the priesthood, the law, even death itself. Death which once held its prisoners captive can do so no more for those who have received the victory of life in Christ.

The plan of redemption has not changed since the cross. Because without the forgiveness of sins imputed to us by the cross, then we are still in our sins. But we are a new creation because it is now the blood of Christ that keeps us consecrated and the Holy Spirit who keeps us sanctified. We are therefore the redeemed in the earth whom Christ has justified, to whom eternal life is given. We no longer must wait in death for Christ to come and deliver us, because we will never die in that old death that kept Israel captive waiting for her Redeemer. To be absent from the body means we will be present with the Lord. And that was true for the 1st century saints as well.

But in their last generation, while all Israel was being gathered, there was a time of judgment to which the OT dead were to be raised together to face. We do not face that judgment, because our judgment takes place when we believe the gospel – or reject it.

However without receiving Christ and the forgiveness He wrought for us, we will die in our sins and there will be no release from death for those who reject the only salvation given to men.

That is the same plan of redemption the gospel delivers to us because all these things have been accomplished for us. Death when it comes means salvation for those in Christ, not judgment. But without the forgiveness and life of Christ, death means eternal separation from God for those who die in their sins. They have no hope beyond death at all. They do not wait for their judgment a moment longer than we must wait for our being caught up to be with Christ forever.

Here is a brief essay from Samuel Dawson you might find of interest that shows why the need for Israel’s promises to be fulfilled and not put off to some far future time:

If Christ has not fulfilled all the prophecies which were given about Him, then we are not yet in possession of our redemption at all, and Israel is still waiting in her grave for it to come to us. It is afterall His testimony to us and the last sign in 70AD has long since passed by which Israel & the nations were to know it – that Christ is Lord of heaven and earth and ruling over His kingdom. Which was not just a sign of His vindication, but of His glory as the God we serve who keeps His word.

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